Ben Baptie: "This is a very gradual thing, it's not like, there you go and overnight you are the biggest producer in the world."

We have organised and hosted a masterclass with Ben Baptie a few months ago at the London College of Music. The event was also organised with the help of The MNGR, a student society, and the event was hosted by George Sampson who interviewed Ben Baptie.

Throughout his career Ben Baptie has mixed records for artists such as Lady Gaga, Mark Ronson, Moses Sumney to name a few and has frequently collaborated with Rex Orange County co-producing, mixing and engineering his most recent third album Pony. Ben has also been nominated for the ‘Producer of the Year’ at the 2020 MPG Awards.

We are honoured to share Ben Baptie's story in an article (based on the live conversation) and provide a closer look into Ben's career and his advice for the new generation of music producers and engineers. 

Has music always been a part of your life and do you have any significant memories with music?

Ben: Yes, I was into music from as soon as I can remember. My first main point in my life when I realised music was going to become a bigger part of my life was when I was 16 and I saw a Radiohead at Glastonbury. It was quite a skewed mindset, and it was just one of those moments when I released what was really important to me and how it made me feel and how I wanted to find out how that happened. It was like watching a band, but also it was the way the music made you feel and releasing it was not just about these people playing instruments, it was like the way it makes you feel, so, the production behind it, the ideas behind it.

Were you playing any instruments at the time?

Ben: Yes, I played the guitar, I played bass, but it was different. It was not just a guitar, it was everything. It was the whole production, that was the big moment for me.

How long have you been playing the guitar?

Ben: I started when I was 12, and it was that realisation that for me it was not about the songwriting because until that point I was just writing songs and I was in a band. Then I suddenly realised it was the way things sounded and the way things felt. It wasn't just the chords they were playing; it was the way in which the chords were there, just that whole combination of all those things I realised was just an incredible thing and they did it so perfectly in that live show.

How was the transition between then, university, and who you are now as a professional?

Ben: I am from the Southwest of England, just outside of Bristol, so I am from the countryside. There aren't a lot of opportunities there, there's not a music scene necessarily, there are no studios, there isn't anything like that. I used the opportunity of the university to be able to move to London. I went around all the different universities, and when I arrived here, it was the lecturers that drew me here. I moved up here with a band I was in at the time. As soon as I got here, that was when I realised that I am going to focus on this side of things more, but I needed to get here, first of all, to be able to understand how to be in a city like London where you do have a culture of studios. It's not great, but it is still a culture of studios. As soon as I got here, I started looking for internships, for placements that I could do, and using the university as a great place to learn, but then realising that this is one part of it. You are given this time when you are at a university to be able to learn, but also to work out what you want to do. It's great to go out and have a great time at the university, but I really used it to be like, "What is it that I actually want to do with my life?" I was very fortunate I got an internship at the Metropolis studios, but I didn't just get the internship, I wanted to prove that I could work in the studio to myself, and to everyone around me. It was difficult, it's not easy to get into those situations. I was fortunate enough that then I got to assist Tom Elmhirst. He had been working at a studio there for years and I just arrived at that particular time where his assistant was leaving, and they were trying out these different people. But it’s not just about being in the right place, it’s also about using the opportunity in a creative way and not just seeing it as, "Well, I'm here, so, I deserve it." Show them why you deserve it. That is how I went from liking music, loving studios, to actually then being able to work. You have got to show your worth. It's dedication, it's not easy.

How did you connect with Tom Elmhirst and how did you manage to get the internship at Metropolis Studios?

Ben: It was the closest big commercial studio from here (London College of Music) and I was pretty lucky that the Chief Engineer at the time, a guy called Sam Wheat, had also been at the university. So, I think that he liked the fact that I have chosen this university. When I got there, I was doing a one day a week internship and then I upped it to two days a week and then started doing five days a week and I was doing it with my course at the same time. Around that time, Tom was just trying out all the different interns to see if anyone suited working with him and I was the last one he tried. As soon as I got in there, that was kind of it, that was like the beginning of the hard work.

After that, you moved to New York. How did that come about?

Ben: I started working with Tom full time while I was finishing my degree. And then one day he just came into the studio, and he had a massive success of the back of Adele's 21 album, Amy Winehouse and stuff like that. He was just hitting his peak level.

Were you working with him back on those projects?

Ben: I have been around for 21 which was pretty mad to see and also just hear ‘Rolling in the Deep’ six months before it came out. It was quite a weird sensation because I was like, that's the song Tom worked on, and suddenly, the whole world implodes and is listening to this song. Off the back of that understanding of it, he was like, "I can do this in America." It was one of those things, he came in, told me that he was going to go, and he was like, "I want you to come with me if you would be up for it." And obviously, I was like 100 per cent. That was when he started looking into studios and he was like, "We're going to Electric Lady", and I was like, this is going to be nuts.

How did you find that transition from London to New York?

Ben: The culture in America is very, very different. Over here, you'll be an assistant for like five or six years, maybe a bit more or less, and in America, you have people who are assistants for like 20 years. Assistant is a very specific role over there, over here it's a different thing. The studios are just way more hardcore and just the business as a whole is way more intense because it's just so big. The transition though, in terms of moving from London to New York was absolutely terrifying, I had never been there before I moved there. I have never ever been to New York once, I literally landed with my suitcase and the first thing I did was go to the studio. I got in and the desk wasn’t installed, and we were starting the next day and I was like, "Alright, this is the way it is going to be," but it was kind of amazing. New York as a place allows you to do whatever you want to do. You can go to New York and you can just sit back, and New York will eat you up or you can go to New York and go for it. And me and Tom basically did that, we just went there and were like, "Alright, let's do this." It was amazing, Electric Lady as a studio is a masterpiece, it's like one of the greats with all the history with Hendrix, but how they keep it now as a studio is just world-class, it's just unbelievable. Metropolis is a great studio, but it definitely felt like a huge step-up where we can just go for it. 

It was also kind of weird, two British guys showing up in America and they were like, who the hell are these guys, like what are you doing here. We could kind of do whatever we wanted because Tom was also working on massive projects, but then for me, as an assistant, I could go in there, I was Tom's guy, so I could get away with like, "We want this in the room, we want this..." So, in the live room of the studio we ended up making a whole studio where I would get new bands in and be working with them and any extra engineering that Tom would need, I could do. We made it into what we wanted it to be, as opposed to what we thought people might want. Just like, "Let's just do this", and it was amazing, it was really good. I mean, it taught me a hell of a lot. There are certain situations where you get to hear what is going on and be respectful of the situation and there are other times when you get to decide those things and if you want to go there, you can go there. If you want to put in 150 per cent, do it. I wouldn't sleep in New York. We would have months of not having days off and even when I had a day off, I will be in the studio because it's not just a job, it's a lifestyle, it's a career, it's everything. When you are dealing with someone's music, you are dealing with their life on quite an intense level. It was amazing.

How long have you been back in London?

Ben: It would be about five years. I went freelance when I was 26 and I moved back here when I was 27. So, it would be close to five years.

I have done some work experience in different studios and it is very much a 9-5 structure which is odd because people like me, producers, musicians, engineers, we are creatures of the night…

Ben: At 5:00 pm is when the day starts. I find it weird, being at Electric Lady they would have interns no matter what time the studio session is on, there would always be interns there. Here, it's not a thing, and I don't know whether that is because of the law applying to this country, in terms of free work. Even when I was at Metropolis in the beginning, I could go home, or I could just stay at the studio and no one will tell you to leave. I think you should stay at the studio, it's when you end up meeting someone who's like, "Oh, you're still here?" Because over here people are surprised when people do that. In America, it's like, "Of course you're still here because I need you to do work for me." It's like, I need you to get me food, I need you to do this and that. I think that coming back here was interesting to see the speed and another perspective on it and bringing a lot of the things that I learnt in America back here and just getting on with it. 

What do you enjoy most from making music and being a producer and mixing engineer?

Ben: It's the collaborations; it's a special thing being able to work with such talented people. People who can voice their life experience, it's a pretty magical thing as a songwriter to be able to do that. To be able to be a part of that and they allow you to become a part of that... there aren't very many positions in the world where you can be so close to someone. Film sets are amazing but there are so many different jobs, it's so vast what you walk into. Your role, however important it is, it's still one in a lot of roles. When you are in the studio, it can just be you and an artist for months. It's so personal, you end up knowing everything about them and they know everything about you. You have to have it that way because as those songs come together, as they are formed, you have to understand what it is that you are doing and where it can go and what's right and what's wrong, subjectively, for that song. Some of the relationships that I have with artists are so bizarre and my friends outside of music don't understand those relationships. Because you have this weird connection, it is all in-jokes that make no sense to the outside and I’m like, well if you knew what we have been through. Because you just spend such a long time with them, it's just a relationship. For the sacrifices you make to be in the studio to be able to have those interactions is a really magical thing, especially when you go and see them play live, you get to watch an audience enjoying those things. It's a pretty strange experience because you had seen it as a one-on-one thing or like one of the entities and you go to these shows and see thousands of people going mental.

If you haven't met an artist or someone first, do you feel like you want to have that interaction or conversation before you work with them?

Ben: I always try to meet with people before, but we don't talk about what it is that we are going to do. It's just the really simple stuff, like their mannerisms and how they feel about just normal stuff; what they've been through; how they deal with the world; as well as what music do they like and what don't they like. Because so much of it is psychological. I know all the technical stuff, I know how to use a console, I know how to use tape, all that stuff and that is great, but that doesn't mean anything unless the person who is singing down the mic or playing the drums or the guitar wants to do it. If you can't get them to want to do it and give what it is they are supposed to give across, you can have the greatest setup in the world, it means nothing there.

Do you think is it like 50/50 in terms of energy that you have to make them comfortable?

Ben: Yeah, we all have bad days and sometimes an artist can on one night be absolutely killing it, the next come in and be like, "I don't want to do this today." It's like, well, we're going to have to do it today. So, you just have to work out how to get them there and that's not by being manipulative, that is by understanding and being empathetic. Sometimes it's good when an artist is sad because then they might want to sing a sad song, so you got to take them to the right place of being sad to let them do it. Also, they might be singing a really happy song and they're not in a good mood, so you got to draw them around.

Do you have any tricks for that?

Ben: You just got to listen to them talk. Their lives are way more complicated than I think a lot of peoples' because they put their life into the public eye, but in a very weird way. If you are an actor, you are acting. It is very personal, but when you are a songwriter and you write lyrics, you are telling your own story that people listen to. So, their life is very bizarre, and I think a lot of songwriters might be struggling with trusting people and they have to know that they can trust you. As soon as they trust you, you can get them out of any situation because they believe that you can take them there. For so long, I've always just thought, “Imagine how amazing it would be to mix on a console.” I can get a multitrack of people and you can tell that they haven't maybe got the artists in the right place. It doesn't matter what you are doing it on, it's beside the point, and that's when I realised that being in production is really where I want to be because that's the most magical part is like, you can go there with someone and when you're there, it's otherworldly what that experience is like. You both disappear for those three minutes when they sing and it’s amazing, it’s really powerful.

How did the Pony project with Rex Orange County come about and how was your experience working on it?

Ben: I worked on Rex's last record Apricot Princess and at that time I was younger. He has done an amazing job, he just needed someone to help him record vocals, just finish it up and then when it came around to making this record, he was more open to collaborating with people. We got on so well on the last record, and again it is the trust thing. We just tried out a few sessions, he tried out a few sessions with other people and as soon as we got into the studio, it just kind of made sense, but we worked out what record it was going to be for him whilst we were making it. First, you just had the demos and we just started working on them and it was only like halfway through the process, we did over five months. It is only halfway through the process that we realised what record it was that he was trying to make. It is like way more pop-focused than he had ever been before, maybe. It was a lot more refined than he had done before, but that was giving him the space to realise that and work on stuff. On that record, it's literary him, me and a couple of other people across the whole thing.